Race Review | 2026 Barcelona Grand Prix | 184 | Hamilton Wins in Red, and Why Joe Won’t Call It a Turning Point

Lewis Hamilton won the Spanish Grand Prix. His first win for Ferrari, at the circuit that rewards the car above almost everything else, after a year of being told that whatever he achieved before was the machinery and not the man.

Sabrina saw a driver answering his doubters. Joe kept pulling the conversation back to the things the celebration was skating over: a Mercedes that was quicker in qualifying, the heat, the virtual safety car, and a long history of Barcelona results that flattered to deceive. His read on whether this is the start of a Ferrari era is not the one social media wants to hear.

With Dick out for this one, it is just Sabrina and Joe, and the conversation ranges well past the podium. The Monaco mess that still has not been put to bed, and Sabrina’s argument for a fix that Joe thinks goes a step too far. What a struggling Red Bull and a quiet afternoon actually tell you about where this season stands. Whether Mercedes has a problem it would rather not name. And why Franco Colapinto being waved aside may say more about his future than his finishing position did.

Then the detail that reframes the whole day. Barcelona, Joe argues, is the most predictable race on the calendar, more so than Monaco, the one track built to expose exactly how good each car really is. So why, at the very circuit designed to settle the argument, did the two of them come away more certain than ever that nothing is settled?

A historic win at one end. A veteran who has watched too many of these to wave a flag at the other. And a season that keeps refusing to tell you what it is becoming.

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Transcript

Speaker: 0:03

Hey friends, thanks for taking time to listen in on a conversation. Joe Sayward and I had about the twenty twenty six Barcelona Grand Prix. Dick hadn't missed this one, so Lewis Hamilton won in red, his lot of people had stopped After a year of being told it As you'll hear, I could not help Joe, who has spent more time in the paddock than almost anyone, spent the conversation gently refusing to call it a turning point. Whether Barcelona was the start of something for Hamilton and Ferrari, or a perfect afternoon, the standings will quietly correct may depend on who you ask. Before we get to our ask can you help us out? If this show adds value to your F1 experience, please take a moment to follow us and give us five stars on your favorite podcast app. Share this episode with other F1 That's how people find us and it's how we keep growing this community. Hope you enjoy our conversation. Okay. Well, Joe, it is the days after the Barcelona Grand Prix and it looks like it's you and me today. Dick has had to unavoidably miss I know that that's not easy for him, but we'll just have to keep going on. Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's it's unfortunate, of dealing with it on our own. So, um, it was quite an Obviously everyone's very Um, and, uh, you know, it's a, Whenever there's a change, And it's Lewis's first win at I mean, there were lots of He's the first British driver to win at Ferrari since Mansell I think. And the podium was the first. This is an extraordinary The podium was the first all nineteen sixty eight. And I thought, that's really weird because I'm sure I was at one or two with with full British podiums in the past, but obviously not. I must have just dreamed that Yeah, I was really impressed by Yeah. In the in the era of Schumacher, I suppose there were lots of Brits, but Schumacher was always there or thereabouts, and I think he probably spoiled it a few times. But I thought, you know, with Damon Hill and with, with David Coulthard and Johnny Herbert and, and all these guys, I thought, I'm sure there was one somewhere, but I couldn't find one. So, um, obviously there wasn't. I just, I just imagined it. So was that your race highlight the fact that this was an all-British podium. Uh, what was my race highlight? Um, I really have to say it's back and winning in a Ferrari. It's his first win in a You know, what it does is it this Lewis Hamilton guy, he's He can do it in other teams as Very important point. Not that anyone really doubted I think the question was for to be fair. Um is he is he has he still got Is he not too old? And you know, for a while last year when Charles was beating him, it was like, oh, come on, Lewis, you know, this isn't great. But he seems to have got it all He's much happier now. Um, he's in a happy place and for the sport because you know, figure and you know, Ferrari win Even if you even if you're not a always good because there are so So it's important. It would be nice if they could not get carried away. I think, yeah, for me it was If anything as I processed the was a master class on so many technique, but it's also the You could just see. After Qualy, he was buzzing and just his normal demeanour that at least for me, I wonder what And then to see how it unfolded. The champion that you had known itself in the way that it did on And so for those who are newer, what Lewis, in that time of that But I would even argue I wasn't was in McLaren. But I've watched old races and something different of what was So new, new fans to the sport appreciation that you do. Jo, of your experience of could have been. And then I think for me, because I get so frustrated with sometimes social media drama and people devaluing what he has accomplished. And like you, I thought, this is this is the Lewis that everyone needed to see that he hasn't lost it and that it wasn't just simply the car, as I've seen people try to argue and I just go, you clearly don't understand, and I'm not even a racer, and you don't understand what it takes to have accomplished what he did consistently at that level when the car was where he needed it to be. So to see now two races. I hear you being happy for him of winning, but you're not going overboard of thinking this could just be a complete overhaul change in Ferrari when through that. What keeps you measured on that? Why wouldn't you go that far? Because in, uh, in qualifying, the, uh, the Mercedes was still ahead, you know, and the Mercedes is still a quick car, I think. I can't back it up with much, I mean, uh, George did have a Um, there was, there was a, a and therefore he was struggling Now he got overtaken by Kimi. But to be, to be fair, I didn't think Kimi looked his normal self. Um he just didn't seem to be uh, I saw before the race he looked you shouldn't be looking tired You know, it's, you know, these All the rest of it. Maybe he's doing too much. Maybe, you know, maybe because He's at MotoGP race. He's at he's at I can't even turned up, but he seems to be And I don't know who's looking social schedule, but I think it Anyway, whatever. The problem with these guys when they get tired is they also get sick. You know, it's just one of the And I know, I mean, I've traveled to the Grand Prix circus for years and years and years. And when you've done it, a lot immune to it. But if you're still new to it, easily because it's just you don't sleep properly, you all these things that are not Um, you need to take those into And and Kimmy's, you know, he's So quite often in the second young drivers do get tired and So I don't know, but there was quite right about it. And then, of course, you know, um, you know, it was too late. And then, you know, the car blew So, um, he ended up with nothing, which was pretty unfair given what he'd done over the weekend. But that's the way it is. It's the same with George in It is slightly alarming that happening as much as they are. Uh, because it's not just those a whole bunch of stuff too. So, um, but we'll see. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It's a pivotal moment in world history, you know, as some people would make it out to be, um, inevitably, because you know, everything, everything in Formula One, certainly in social media is what happened five minutes ago and not not taking a bigger picture. So we'll see how it goes. Um, it was also very hot, very And, uh, Mercedes don't traditionally work as well in hot weather. You know, there's lots of, there taken into account and we don't didn't think it was a. The other made much difference in the Louis was very lucky. On the virtual safety car. He gained. He gained a probably four or And that's important for track Track position is often key because once you're behind somebody, you're trying to get past them is very difficult and messes up the tyres and things like that. But I think the virtual safety I'm not sure he wouldn't have won anyway, um, on his on his strategy, but it certainly helped him. Um, and but that's, you know, You know, sometimes the luck, Yeah. I do think that the virtual already on a trajectory to win. I think the virtual safety car protection that he needed to But going back to what you said about Mercedes, I'm hearing you say that the reliability issue, because that's what I put down in my notes and even said that on the race notes is I think that reliability may be Mercedes Achilles heel. Do you think that's overstating Or we have enough data to start leading us down that track of thinking, but more needs to happen. Um, yes and no. I mean, obviously there have been a few failures. This is a new formula. Therefore you expect some new And if there are reliability The regulations allow for changes to be made that if they can, if they prove that it is a regulation so a reliability issue, they can actually change it. So I don't think it's a major They probably the major problem is probably figuring out why it's happening. Um, and it may be more than one That's the other thing, you And, and so it's really the same of any kind of, uh, new championship is that you always have failures because people are learning. And that's why, you know, sometimes it's great to, to, um, uh, use the old machinery because everyone knows it, it doesn't break down or it shouldn't do. Um, and it's all quite close because everyone's developed as much as they can figure out how to develop. So, you know, changing the spreads the field out. And it's also it's sort of anti I mean you have to do it sometimes obviously to keep up with technology. Although you know the FIA back to V8 with some bizarre than the future. Um, which is weird, but there Um, there are some things that to be done. The cars should be smaller. Um, everything should be cheaper, but there are other ways of doing it and um, and you've got to have some relevance for the car manufacturers. You've got to give them And they're very important money into the sport. And um, I think it is, it is the, the, the, the car they don't like it. You know, I think you have to they're there and what the sport Yeah. And I think that's something when we make sure that we do not overlook the fact that this ultimately is a business, and those are the incentives to make sure that the money flows inside the business. Let me ask you this about the You know, there are people who it was unfolding, if there would have been team orders. I don't know that at this race. I think that team orders would I think that if anything, letting them both race allowed them to kind of get this out of their system that they needed that. And this is a early enough race, and there's enough time for the team's overall goal of winning the constructors that they could recover if there was anything but like, both of them really want to prove that they are the one that the team should get behind. And I guess what I want to know is if you were advising Mercedes, because I really couldn't come to a clean answer on this. If you were advising them, would play out or would you have come what we need to do? Because there were some moments gone out with that DNF, where this end up where a loss of happen because of fighting? Do you see where I'm kind of wondering, thinking about Mercedes has never had this policy, and rightly so, because they're sporting. They don't believe in supporting one driver or the other driver because they believe that the driver is sorted out and they've had a problem before when Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg were colliding. And I don't know if you heard the stories that Nico Rosberg was telling about him being not literally fined for the damage, or they basically got billed for any damage that they caused, and Nico said he got bills like three hundred and thirty thousand dollars for colliding with with Lewis one time, because that's the damage it caused. Now, you know, he had a he had a And I think that's probably the Yeah. Um, because declaring that one driver, you know, it's like when Ferrari everything was for Michael Schumacher. That's not very sporting. It's also very boring, by the way, for, uh, spectators, because you just know that if the Ferrari is the fastest car, Michael Schumacher will win because the other guy won't be allowed to. And that's just it's not good. It's not sporting and it's not I had this fight years and years long before he was in Ferrari. And that was his that was his He actually were on the the middle of the Sahara desert. And Jean tossed a coin to decide And I was there and I went And I just said, you can't do That's not sporting. And he taking offense. He said, yes, I can. I'm in charge and my job is to get the best possible result for Peugeot. And I said, that's true, but because winning by unsporting coin and then the guy has to has And actually that did happen. I'm trying to remember, I think, Ickx won the coin toss and Ari for the victory. Um, and on the last day after a mile on the last stage and waiting at the finishing line know, sort of drumming his he's here somewhere. I'm just waiting for him. And you know, that's not good. So and that was his way of doing And fair enough. He was very successful, but I don't think it's very good for the sport. But as you know, as Jean said, Um, now Toto and co have a sport should be. And I'm with them. I don't I don't hate team I always have done um just like You know, it's just it's I and I hate reverse grids and stuff like that because it's just fake and it's a gimmick and it's crap. Really. Yeah. I, I have to agree with you on, just said, let me ask you this and it's obvious one driver is other one isn't challenging. Like I'm not seeing the same Oscar and Lando last year. That was, if anything, I would say team orders are not good at that point, especially if the constructors has already been determined and the team is going to win. Letting those guys race make But what if there is a major Like for example, like with Max There's no question that the accomplish and challenge. Do you still hold to that thinking that team orders isn't necessary there, or is that the role of the second driver to help? If the guy can't do it, he can't You know, Sergio Perez was that particular year was so far behind all the time, it didn't matter. Therefore, team orders didn't he didn't step up. And that's usually the case. No, it's not that they you know, they, they they they can step up. They just can't. If you have a really big gap when you have two guys who are Um, and then you have then you And we've seen that in the past, like Senna and Prost at McLaren in the eighties and, and PK and Mansell at Williams in the eighties, the same kind of thing. They're very much the same And then it gets or in those Um and they played dirty, you to try and avoid. You know, some people think, in Formula One or Formula one dodgy around the edges. Uh, if he has to be. Um, I don't agree with that. I think that there are class dirty, um, to win and, and I people driving into one another because it's just, it's, it's It undervalues the championship Up. Um, and so I think it's just And the fastest guy or the And, and that's really how it Yeah. Well, going back to what you provision in there about that's a clever way of a team their actions and letting them, decision making as a driver, calculations of is this risk And to receive the benefit? They're doing that literally as making decisions of overtakes. But here they know if I do this, Do I want to take that risk? And I think that that's it holds to what you just so sagely said, the sporting aspect of the sport. This is what we as fans are We do want to see the two drivers on a team of the best car duking it out, but we do want to see it happen cleanly and fairly. We will know intuitively if there's someone's putting either the coin toss or a finger on the scale of directing where it goes. So I appreciate you kind of I think you also have to look at Toto Wolff is somebody who knows but he's a sportsman, too. He knows. He knows that the value of of And, you know, he might be very, very clever and he might do all kinds of things to make sure that Mercedes get the best possible shot. Um, you know, but, but when it comes to the guys out on the track, I think he's, he's absolutely fair. And I'm sure after the race he with, um With, I don't know, Kimi, I don't know um, about I don't know if there were if, it's possible that they say, you can go much faster on the radio. I can go faster than this. He's holding him up. Now, if there were team orders, um, applied, Toto would say if he felt it was a valid argument, he would say to George, look, Jimmy's faster. Just let him go because that Now, they didn't say that. Now that's either because they didn't think Kimi was faster or they. They knew that George had a So um, I don't know. But generally speaking, it's not And I think that's really important and it's good for the sport. Um I really think that you know get on with it. I understand the other I don't like them. And you're allowed to feel that If anything, it just shows the difference in culture and ethos of a team, which is also something interesting to analyse and see how that plays out on the track and how that actually applies into the business of the sport itself. So then moving on actually to another team, McLaren, they did have notably last year, the papaya rules and all that, but I don't want to actually go into that. I wrote in my notes that I McLaren's race and like even understand what their results And so I wanted to see if you It just seemed they were not where I thought they would be for Barcelona. I expected more of them. It just even though Lando got was a lot of other issues that Now, Orlando, I think did a I think that he made the call of either choosing to push and battle. He knew enough in that race to well to see where the front of worked well for him to take that But ultimately, like when we lot about the development of the And I wondered what your comes to McLaren. Well, my thought is, again, it about Mercedes not performing as McLaren was close at the end and not in the races. So Fernando was about, I think or something like that, which And um, I think that that's an there weren't many upgrades. I mean, when you look through the whole field, there were Ferrari had a bunch of upgrades, but most people just had circuit specific upgrades. Um, but Ferrari had a whole floor and all the rest of it. So you can understand how they But in terms of, uh, where McLaren is in, in, in their development process, they're still behind Mercedes and yet they got a lot closer than I expected. So that's why I think Mercedes, Mercedes underperformed is that would expect it to be. Okay. Well that's interesting to hear think that they were closer and because that's not definitely But I don't discount what you're So then going back to Ferrari, do you think that the win that Lewis executed was on their pace alone? Or do you think that they had more that they could have done at Ferrari? No, I think I think that was Uh, and Louis, you know, once, once Louis has got the bit between his teeth and the wind in his sails, uh, he is, he is formidable. Um, but, you know, there's only don't think he was. I don't think he was, uh, saving Yeah. I think, I think at the end when he pulled out a lead, I think he was just pulling out the lead at the end one because they were fading away. And two, just for the fun of it, just like Kimi did, uh, whenever it was when he set the fastest lap on the last lap, you know, he was trying to do that in Monaco as well, but it was in Canada. He did that and it's just like This is, you know, I'm under I'm going to win this and I'm And I think that's probably a little bit what Lewis was doing too. And you know for Lewis, it's a massive, massive release more than anything else, to be honest, because, you know, when you have the amount of criticism. He said it himself. He said, you know, you hear the to, you hear the voices and you to react to them. You know, you doubt yourself, am All these questions that other you know, they have a right to Um, and it's tough because sometimes you're just these guys think to themselves, well, are they right? Are my critics. Right? Um, and if you don't listen to a bad idea as well. Um, in my opinion anyway. So no, I think what we saw was, I thought Lewis drove really Uh, he did a great job and the Yeah, I think all of the above. I agree with you. Um, if anything, I wrote about that in my race notes. Is that just the ability that to achieve at least that one which is to win in Ferrari Red last year, I've watched and just inspired me because I think all you just said. How much do you listen to others and how much do you believe in yourself? And you have to have a level of self-awareness and intellectual honesty. And that's got to be very hard on such a public level that he has to operate, is that if you go too far of ignoring everything everybody says, you can put yourself into a very bad position of hubris and arrogance. But then on the other side, when you are being attacked, where people may think that they're saying the right thing, but it's not delivered in a way that it's with goodwill. It's very obvious to the recipient and they're going to close off. And that can make them become spiral or again, bristle up. And you could see that that And I think that the timing of car was where it needed to be, It was a track that he loves. All of that came together, and this can continue to hold on all I think I think this is something that people should be aware of. This will have raised Yeah. Are those expectations going to be because once you have high expectations, you have disappointment. And it may be it may be that we things that made the Ferrari And it won't be happening the um, for example Austria. She looked back over time. Red bull has always been Um, so maybe we'll just we'll bull will be suddenly out of Yeah. Because there is always this It's a good word. That isn't it? Um, the specificity of circuits where some cars go better than others. And, and you have to understand And there's, you know, it's to do with the, the fundamental underlying fundamentals of a chassis. Some are good at one kind of track and some are good at others. And the skill is to get one that's more or less good at all of them. Um, and that's really difficult. And so I think we'll, it's a away and start waving the flag. And I thought, you know, I um, silly saying we, you know, Lewis might be challenges for Yeah. Right. Um, I don't see that. But, you know, this time last year we were going about how we were going to win by a mile and he didn't. Right. You know, just have to wait and And it's you know, I know it's social media want to hear. Like you just got to wait and You know, there aren't any easy But that's the truth of it. There aren't any easy answers because things change every minute. Right. And you know, right now as we're beavering away in all kinds of and all kinds of stuff, trying that'll make the difference. And, you know, that's, that's It's, it's formula one is a Every element of it is moving. It's like the most complicated You know, everything's moving in Um, and then once every and you get a result. And, you know, sometimes the what's going on either. You know, you've just got to which is it's a great sport, just enjoy it is the way I look Yeah, I do agree with you that the design specificity, as you said of the circuit, it is often undervalued, that that is one of the biggest challenges that the team has to have of how general because you don't want it so general that it's not competitive. But then yeah, they're going to going to thrive and others where And how do you do that in conjunction with everything else? That design philosophy actually leads me to actually talking its history of doing well. What do you think? Did this race show us any improvement or any like, pull back on the development side of it? It seemed like Max was expecting this to be like a test of the car, but did it give us the answers to know where Red bull is sitting? Pretty much. Yeah. What did you draw away then? When you say pretty much the same, because Barcelona has always been a track where the car is judged more than the drivers. It's always been that way. And if nobody makes any podcast, you know, the grid is quite the case this time because mistakes down the grid. But if you look at it, the it was there nonetheless. Um, and, you know, you just see compared to the other cars element of a, of a car. So, you know, if you're particularly good or bad or whatever. But that's always been the way it's always that was that was I, if you ask me why that's the case, I couldn't possibly explain it. But I'm sure there are very But. So what did you take away for Nothing, really. I thought it was a very, um, You know, they were there or Um and it wasn't in nothing Yeah. Yeah. I think I was surprised to see I mean, I enjoyed Isaac's performance, I thought his driving was not what I was expecting. That assertiveness that I kept seeing throughout the race was, wow, okay. That's great. But overall, looking at the car, watching Max, I was really surprised. I thought that they would be with the rest of the group. Was that a surprise to you? Did you draw those same No, I just I mean, the thing is tracks have quirks. There are things about them For one, it doesn't work for And I think we've said it on a Well, let's go and see what happens in Barcelona because then you really find out where things are. And I think what we did was we And then the ultimate irony is, duo question, um, you know, balancing everything out. The FIA has concluded that the therefore that becomes the um else is judged. So Red bull are not allowed any And Mercedes is getting an How the hell does that work? I know the answer to this, but That I can see the logic to it, but it's just it it it's illogical logic. If you can have such a thing. Well, yeah, I know we discussed that I think during our last race review, how they came to this and why it in theory it makes sense, but it doesn't make sense when you look at it in actual practice and looking at it comprehensively. Okay. Well, so then what about the I know in the jsbmb you talked I wondered if you wanted to talk about Alpine's performance itself, maybe even Pierre's reinstatement in the Monaco podium. What are your thoughts about any Well, um, the Monaco podium is The stewards were given a situation where it was clearly unfair that Pierre got the penalty. It was clearly unfair to three or four others who had had the same problem, but they served their penalties. And so to let to let Pierre get Yes, that's fair on the one But when you're being fair, on the one hand, you're being unfair on three or four other accounts. Now, one, one might argue that the best thing to do would be to do nothing and be unfair to everybody. Um, but which is, I think if I a steward is really interesting. I haven't been a steward, but I um, uh, training courses for and I went along to one of those what they were learning. Actually Laurent Marquez was, was it the FIA at that point and running it. And he invited me along. Um just he said, you know, so it is to be a steward. And I learned, I absolutely be a steward because you are, uh, what appear to be facts and And there's a lot of things you And in this particular case, you to decide to be unfair or But my view on that would be be And that's that's fairer. So to give Pierre the place back But I understand why they did Now there's I mean that's all still rolling on because now we got a whole bunch of other appeals going on, uh, from the others who are saying, well, hang on a minute, this isn't fair. And it's quite right. You know, it's not fair. And it's a bad precedent too, because if you have a situation where you let teams, um, ignore penalties, uh, on the basis that they can argue about it afterwards. That's not good either. So, um, you know, Pierre got have to serve his penalty. Um, because if you stop in a pit penalty, you have to serve your But you know, I just think the whole thing, the whole thing was a mess. It shouldn't have been a mess. The measurement shouldn't have And while you can blame people right, sure it's not right, but decide how to fix the problem. And I think it's better to be unfair to everybody, rather than being unfair to only three of the four or four of the five, whatever. So that's a matter of style And, you know, the the four sat there and decided this. Okay, so for me, I thought, why not just I know it's a bit controversial, but talking about being unfair, what if the race result was just removed from consideration? I mean, obviously it happened, race and I saw your face You can't just say, well, this race didn't happen because it did. Um, and you can't just sort of say, well we'll annul it because that's not fair to, to, to, to um Kimi who won the race in Monaco. Um, it's not fair to, to anybody It's also not good for, it's So you've got to have a set of rules that are that work properly. And if you get into situations like this, you've got to be fair about it. And I think that by trying to be fair, they ended up being unfair. Right. I guess what I'm saying is go to the extreme of it's not fair to anybody. Yeah. Yeah. Like I think of it because it so many things tangled up with out one is definitely unfair. I guess I also wonder who should the blame of this and have egg their responsibility, I think is Who is putting on the race and so that all of us who are and supporting this should have aspect of this has been actually So that way we can have the trust in the results and that the underlying things that the stewards are making the decisions on are also properly there. Do you see what I'm saying? Like if you're going to do it controversial in a way that is But I hear you. If my thoughts are too extreme, I think the fact of the matter is that it was the mistake made by a subcontractor to the FIA, which is Formula One management, and they only do the they do the timekeeping because they have this electronic ring around the circuit which monitors everything for the TV, the sound, everything. Um, and it's just more logical and more practical for them to do it. Now they should do that properly But also, let's face it, the FIA they don't make mistakes. So who is the blame. I think I mean you're the lawyer law, uh, the subcontractor would Unless, uh, I think if I something like, unless the the whole thing knew about it. And, and therefore, um, I don't know if that was the case or not. I doubt it. Um, because if you knew about it you know, the fact is that that the other or both. And it honestly doesn't matter and everybody is impacted by it. So the best thing to do is say, management said, you know, we Um, great. Yeah. Shouldn't happen the first time. But it did. You know, it just makes the whole sport look rather amateur I think. And and that's not good. Um but it's, you know, it's the You can argue the same thing about the track coming up in Monaco. That shouldn't have happened And you know who's responsible Well, there's the Automobile Club of Monaco as the Government of Monaco. There's some contractor who mix tarmac up, the bitumen, you different words, all meaning the um, but, you know, at the end of be responsible for it. And if in that particular case, And my view on that is that the So, um, you know, that's what They are the regulatory body. So yes, somebody else probably But they should have done. And so we have kind of two similar at the same time. But I still think at the end of the day, when you look at what happened, I think it would have been fairer to just to say it's unfair for everybody and not to give. Pierre. The other thing is Pierre others hadn't been penalized. That's the other key point. You know, he made a big. I mean, he did a great job. He should get an Oscar for that You know, about how he was And you know, this was his he struggled and fought for the podium. He blah de blah de blah. Um. Yeah. Right. Uh, you know, he was lucky to be And so and that's what they do. You know, the drivers play the You hear George is good at that He's the he's the guy who's stewards on the radio saying He did that wrong. In England, we would say he's a call him a snitch, wouldn't you? But, you know, but it's just and and they all do it, you to their engineer knowing that listening into the conversation. And, you know, if they haven't spotted something um that they will. Ah, okay. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's like lying on the ground. Yeah. So injured for ten minutes, you up and running around. No problem. You know, just in there trying So, um, it's all a bit silly what the stewards decided. I just think it would have been Yeah. I don't disagree with really If anything, I'm just maybe But I think that I am just of this, the track aspect of it keeping, I do think going back contractor or subcontractor, the had already talked to the teams So that to me makes me believe that there is enough there that you should have had more oversight. I would love to see the evidence I have certain suspicions that I think that it's not in right now in anyone's best interest to talk about it too much more than what's already being there, because it's all being still appealed. And, you know, like until this, but it is what it is. And like you said, I don't think I think especially for it where the I feel like outside of the world pays really attention It just doesn't look good and I As a fan. Going back to Alonso and Alonso looked like a broken man going into the weekend, and it was an appalling weekend for Aston Martin. It was a shocker. Absolutely. Everything was horrible. Um, I think I mean the rumors to alpine and I that makes I think he will. And I think they'll give him a, and he'll pay him a load of ambassador for Gucci. And, uh, everyone will be happy because he'll be back with the same gang he's worked with before, so. And he's right. He's been to Enstone like three his career is longer than War So, um, it's got more chapters Um, and, and, uh, so I think ending your career on a high as which no Aston Martin might get thing holds together. Um, but I just think it's a You know, he's forty five in the No. And he said it himself. I'm not really you know, I probably won't be back at Barcelona again. Um because I Barcelona misses a because it's an alternation of So I think I can see that And he'll be very good. Um you know, he's still good. We don't know how good because, Aston Martin, uh, at that time have, might have done more You know, it's like when, uh, and when Alonso got in the car, Vettel had been because Vettel just sort of drifted off into But I think that's you know I So and I think it's probably a So then what about Franco in I know that we thought there seemed to be a resurge. And then I wondered when we saw give way to Pierre. It just made me kind of wonder Is that literally years doing Um, or do you think some of this I think I think that Franco I Williams he looked very good for And then he started crashing not Jack Doohan. They um. Oh dear me. Uh, the American he replaced. I'm sorry. My brain is gone. Oh. Logan. Sargeant. Logan Sargeant. Yes. Uh, okay. Um, he just started doing the same things that Logan had been doing, which was crashing, but for a few races, he looked very good. And then, you know, alpine paid a lot of money to get him out of a Williams contract and put him in. And I think he's been I'm not because he hasn't. He's been okay. But okay is not enough in You've got to be better than And I think that there's an Pressure on him, which probably But, you know, he seems to have But I'm not sure he's got the that make a star. And he's had a lot of time now You know, even if you're in a bad car, you can still do things that people go, oh, that's interesting. You know, that's, you know, it's car, you see them at their best. I've always found. And sometimes you don't notice because they're obviously not on camera. They're not in the focus. But sometimes people do things that was impressive. Um, and I think there's been a little bit lacking in wow factor. Now that may upset Franco's, uh, vocal in their support of him. But, you know, that is if you look at the reality of the situation, um, you can see how and let's face it, you know, Flavio Briatore doesn't give a toss about what the fans think about anything. You know, he, he just wants to get, um, the best things together that he can get together. You know, it's not always the Sometimes it's making more money But um, you know, that is, uh, at the moment he needs to have a really good team, um, more than having the money because, you know, obviously the rival of Gucci is going to be a, uh, a big financial bonus for the team. And, you know, uh, Fernando is a former world champion, admittedly a thousand years ago, but he was a double world champion. And Pierre Gasly is not a double He's won one race. You know Franco has won nothing. So from a just on a on on paper, having Fernando Alonso, who is a long established star in Formula one in your team is a good thing. And if he's still delivering all good a job, if Franco is Franco he's still more value because he the bag with him. It's a bit like the bit like the argument about if your drivers are the same speed as one another, the one who speaks four languages is more valuable than the one who doesn't speak four languages. You know, it's that kind of Now, obviously Briatore thinks that, or we'll see if it actually happens. But I would imagine that, uh, that reason, because it's not Franco probably might be better. And there's a lot more bonuses. Yeah. Well, as you were talking, it Alpine, when you look at the performance, but you think about side of it. Both, um, Mercedes and Alpine have more similarities in my mind at the moment in the sense that you have Kimi and you have Franco who came in in the same class, essentially into the into the grid. And then you have Pierre and George, who are also essentially peers, and then you have Lewis and Fernando who are essentially peers. They all kind of those And if if the analysis were the same, Kimi, if Kimi wasn't doing as great as he was and the opportunity to bring back Lewis presented itself. I think Mercedes assuming like looking at the paper, you could did about the value of bringing champion, two year team, as he If you've got someone who is probably the parallel breaks, multi-race winner versus Pierre. But the talent and the ability to to stay on the grid as long as either one of them have is similar. And so I think unfortunately for whatever they have said as So here's the option for the business to bring in the multi year champion. And you're you're not able to hold up against that because you're not delivering on the potential that they had expected for you. I don't think that, uh, if you look at what alpine did to, uh, Jack Doohan, that wasn't fair because Jack was never given a proper chance to show what we do. But I think Franco's had enough He has. They've been very fair with him. I think that, uh. Williams. I mean, the Williams were fair I mean, they gave him the drive moved on from him. But, you know, they they sold wanted it and, um, and got a lot So, um, you know, I think I just think, you know, you've got to formula one is about delivering. And if you don't deliver enough, think you've delivered enough, people in the business making I mean, believe me, Formula One would love to have Franco Colapinto and a grand prix in Argentina. It would be fantastic. Uh, another race in South Now, there's all kinds of reasons why that might not happen. And certainly without Franco, for that to happen. But these kind of decisions nowadays that doesn't decide, you know, we wanted a Chinese driver. Guanyu Zhou had a lot of, uh, He was able to do a certain amount, but that didn't affect the race. You know it it probably brought Maybe usually that's what Um, but you know, that's China has been on, uh, the formula one calendar for twenty odd years now. It's hard to imagine, but that Um, so, but Argentina, it's been I did go to some Argentine Grand I can't remember which years I guess it was in the nineties. Um, and they were great. They were, they were, they were, uh, I mean the track was, um, out of date and all the rest of it. But they were they were good events and they were very popular. But again, if you can't pay for be a race? Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I'm looking at the time, so I want to make sure we don't overlook the rest of the grid. I wonder what your thoughts are Williams their days because of of the field. I feel like it wasn't so obvious what the day looked like for those teams. What are your takeaways of any Racing Bulls did a great job. Um, and Haas, I mean, you've got with all the, the, uh, the points up for grabs that aren't because Charles wasn't there. And in the end, Kimi wasn't So there were points there that um, were to be grabbed now, but Racing Bulls did did a very good job all weekend and that car is obviously good and they are improving it. They've got some very good Their house is smaller. Um and you know it struggles And uh, Williams Williams, uh, from the very beginning of the their car to be very good there. And it wasn't. So, you know, if your car's no good, there's a lot of things that still need to be done to the Williams. You know, there's still weight Um, I think also that's part of with the Red bull too, I think overweight as well. But you know, that's, that's snapshot of where you are on a And I think what we saw is Um, how completely useless Aston from the pace Cadillac was. And the rest of it is just, you know, boom, boom, boom, boom boom. And what did you think about Audi and Nico's unfortunate incident of the rock hitting the kill switch? Well, it's it's certainly Um, but they weren't really, uh, But, you know, that's kind of where they're at as well, you know. So I don't think we actually It just, it just sort of more than anything. And, um, and now we just go see, you know, how things play also from upgrade to upgrade, whereby new stuff comes. You know, Aston Martin are It sounds like almost a new car, Um, I don't know if they'll make it for the summer break or not before, but, you know, and maybe we'll see them suddenly being in the midfield where they should be. Um, but I don't know if that's We'll see. They certainly aren't wasting They clearly putting everything So a B version of the car, whether the B version of the car has the same chassis, I don't know. But we'll see. So if you're a new fan and you're watching this Grand Prix, what would you say is the thing that they should understand from watching the race or the key takeaway that they should have had? I think the thing, if you are completely new for that, um, is the my favorite word again, specificity of a track two different cars. You know, some people don't know beginner, um, racing is track better on one circuit than it Simple. And added to that, you also it's so true nowadays, but it is drivers like some tracks more don't like some tracks, so they ones they like. And uh, so there are, you know, there's all kinds of elements to it that as a, as a, you know, it's not, it's not just the same every week. It might have looked like it for actually it wasn't. If you look at it closely, there so happened that Mercedes won Now Ferrari has won one. Now, the thing I'd say is, don't beginning of a new regime, I might be wrong, you know. And that's the other thing about it is that you can you can listen to the voices, the observers, and they can say, this is the Ferraris renaissance, and they might be right. It might be wrong, it might be But at the end of the day, get there and do it, you know? And that, I think, is something that we can all learn from really, which is, you know, just just to take it and enjoy it for what it is and we can analyse it later. Um, but can we predict the No we can't. Yeah, yeah. I agree with a lot of what you If anything, I love the idea of If you start to look into the details, you can see that it's not literally the same thing happening over. It's like opening up the hood much more complexity that has even if the ultimate result there can be some signs of what But we also know that there are too many variables that happen at any given race that you can't truly forecast. It's like weather forecasting. They have a lot of good data is likely to happen. But if you ever took a weather and said, this is what I'm like, you're, you're being a little literally predict the future. I think for me, if I were talking to a new fan, which I know many of our listeners are, is that I think that Barcelona is a driver's circuit and a strategy circuit. And this year showed that if you the cars look a little bit ahead, I think that that was a the teams, because I think they from this specific track. And that's part of the reason As you noted, Jo, a great place to size up where everybody is that snapshot and that the drivers, I think, seem to like it. It's it seemed like they were And so that puts them into a what it needs to do. It's like a level of confidence, because they've been there, and measure themselves, and that headspace to then think the box, to use experience or figure out where are the gaps. And so that's why I think I always look forward to this race. I am disappointed that it's going to be alternated, but you know, it is what it is and that's what the calendar will be. And hopefully there'll be other type of activity. Just one thought, and that is it probably isn't immediately obvious, but Barcelona is actually more predictable race than any other, including Monaco. If you look back in history more, I think it's only three drivers in thirty six years who weren't on the front row, who won. It's always the front runner. That's way more than Monaco. Monaco. You know, the percentage of pole than any other circuit. Why? That's a good question, but it's It's a it's a circuit that values the car more than the driver. Yeah, Monaco actually values the So that's an extraordinary But it also means you can have some very dull races at Barcelona too. Um yeah. Because things don't change There you are. Yeah. Oh I love that data point the reasons I do like Barcelona, favour the car. And because of that, the value little bit more. The strategy, the setup, how are with the driver? Like it's like that's the platform for the driver then to truly shine or be called out in some ways, like if they can or cannot produce the results that are needed if the car is in a good place. And I love how that when you talk about that in comparison to Monaco and for them to have it happen consecutively, that also is a really cool way to see is the driver's talent matched up with where a car and vice versa, is a car matched up with the driver's talent. So I'm really glad you pulled So next up is Austria. Anything you're looking forward I think additionally, Max and Red bull have done very well there. And, uh, I mean, it's a, it's a It's, uh, it's simple. It's always, it's always good And, uh, it'll be really You know, I can see Red bull than they have been in recent So this is this is why I love Formula one, because it is unpredictable. Even when it's being So yes, it may not be obvious, but if you look, if you dig beneath, beneath the surface just a little bit, you find out that actually everyone is different and everyone is interesting. And I never, ever, ever get Yes. Um, because I'm always looking at all the different things going on. I do a thing called a lap chart. I don't know if you've lap charts are where you write come by every lap. And that way you follow And at the end of the race, you know exactly what happened to everybody. You don't know all the reasons I'm just trying to look and see don't at the moment. Um, I have one that's not filled it's a grid and you just write But, but there's all kinds of little annotations that tell you. And so I'm always fascinated by So the more you get into it, the That's I think I wholeheartedly agree, and that's one of the many reasons I enjoy not only the Jsbmb, but your insights and your willingness to have these conversations, because I feel like a kindred ness with you on that, that I enjoy getting down into the gritty details and thinking through what are the threads that might not be obvious. It's just a wonderful sport. And if anything, Joe, I look forward to our next conversation. Okay, friends, what did you Drop me a line via email. Sabrina at Two Guys, a girl and Can you help us out? If you haven't already, please take a moment to follow us and give us five stars on your favorite podcast app, as well as share this episode with other F1 fans. We know our growth is because of you and the guys and I thank you. And with that, let me say we'll listening in because we're just John, Dick and me. Sabrina, thanks for listening.