Race Review | 2026 Belgian Grand Prix | 188 | Was Spa 2026 a Classic or a Manufactured Race? We Couldn't Agree.

Kimi Antonelli won at Spa like it was never in doubt. Charles Leclerc briefly led after a caution that made at least one voice in the booth uneasy about how it came about. And by the closing minutes, Dick, Joe, and Sabrina couldn't even agree on whether this was a great race or a manufactured one, or whether that question even makes sense from a TV screen versus trackside. There's also a paddock story making the rounds about a coming change to a rival team's driver program that nobody's confirming yet.

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Transcript

Speaker: 0:02

Hey friends, thanks for taking time to listen in on a conversation. Dick, Joe Saward and I had about the twenty twenty six Belgian Grand Prix Spa is one of the races we all look forward to each year. This one didn't sit right with Dick had his own read on why and As you'll hear, we couldn't even drive at this track, let alone But before we get to our you help us out? If this show adds value to your F1 experience, please take a moment to follow us and give us five stars on your favorite podcast app. Share this episode with other F1 That's how people find us and it's how we keep growing this community. Hope you enjoy our conversation. All right gentlemen, it is good another motor race. As you said, Joe. This one happened to be in In It took me a minute. Well. Uh. So let's get started, guys. What was your highlight of this Joe, you want to go first? Um, well, I think the first of all, I mean, Spa is an who's never been there should go Even with these current generation of cars, it's still spectacular. And, uh, and I thought the was completely dominant. I mean, the only reason there was because of a it's an the, the safety car interlude virtual safety car actually, but He gave him an advantage um with understand what that was about. There was one bloke running of composite, and it went on for don't know, I'm suspicious by and I didn't like that at all. Um, uh, which is, you know, I mean, I'm not saying there was, but it would just look really odd. Um, and, you know, put the Great. Terrific. Kimi caught him up and passed It was always going to happen I have happened sooner if. Well he was ahead anyway so um and retake it all over again. So um but it just showed that, you know Kimi in the Mercedes was, was brilliantly unbeatable and the championship's back to where it was before his various technical problems. Okay. That was mainly because George Lewis got into trouble for Um, and so basically everyone All fell over each other, leaving it between Charles and and Kimmy. Really? I mean, the others weren't They weren't too far off. Um, but they were, you know, they weren't really in the fight. So I think that's for me, that's And you know, Kimmy. Kimmy is just such a good driver Um, uh, he doesn't freak out. He's he's nineteen years old and he doesn't get excited about stuff. He, if he gets a, you know, if him, he just shrugs and gets on That's really extraordinary. There is one other thing I'd that is that there is a story Gwen Lagrou leaving Mercedes to And I think that's really significant because Gwen Negru is the man who built Mercedes junior team. And you know he did it right back to Esteban Ocon ten years ago. Um and he did it with George. He did it with Kimi. And the fact that he's now been announced officially. And nobody will say anything about it, but it's going to happen. Um, is a is for me very always been a cock eyed kind of And if Gwen is in charge, he differently to the way Helmut drivers with a chainsaw, you He thought it was the right Uh, and they sponsored probably a hundred drivers, and they got two good ones at the end of it, because no matter how much you pretend Max Verstappen was never a Red bull junior driver because he he only joined Red bull, uh, when he signed to, to race for, uh, what was then AlphaTauri, I think, or Toro Rosso, Toro Rosso even. Yeah, that long ago. Whichever. I can never remember what year Yeah. Basically Max was never a Red So basically they got out of their scheme of one hundred drivers. They got Vettel and they got Nobody else ever won much and they axed an awful lot of good people. And uh, I think with a, with a, with a completely rethought sensible plan. The other thing is that when they do that, of course their driver costs will come down um, considerably. You know, Mercedes, ironically drivers than any other team, much on drivers. Um, and, uh, Red bull is of their drivers is, you know, So and McLaren is spending more probably twenty percent, thirty percent more. It just goes to show that, you know, there is a value in these things anyway. That's not race related, but it I was just going to say, Joe, I if you look at it from, um, a which I know you're doing, but building a pipeline that may not five years, right? Um, you're still going in ensuring yourself that kind of, of talent. And especially if Gwen is the Russell and Kimmy and those guys Um, you know, I mean, that's bull down the road, you know? And if they can keep Max and a good job. Um, you know, they're not for drivers now, but five years And so I think it's a great Yeah, that's one of the problems moment is that some years they years they've got too many. And right now there are too many Who's looking really good in They've got staff and Lawson and So they're going to have to dump get five blokes into four seats. They even tried that a few years Um, when they had Liuzzi and One, which was totally stupid Anyway, let's go back to the Yeah, yeah. But still a great point. So, you know, I always look you know, it's just such a an such a history, you know, and used to be about double the you see today. And they shortened it years and years ago for safety reasons basically. Um, and because it's just, you it's just too hard to marshal for safety and, you know, all And so, you know, again, it's and it's, it's set in an And, um, every once in a while, camera and there'll be a camera exactly just how steep some of are either going up or down. And so, um, it's, it's just a great, uh, classic racing circuit. And, um, and, you know, I've to Joe's point, I, I think this race was always going to be kimi's. Um, the way he was in practice. Um, you know, George again, was close to Kimi most of the time. Um, and then he had apparently, but some sort of a battery issue slow down at the start, which is and send George off into the And so, you know, this race was harvest it and deployed because, to be an energy poor track as, And so we saw a little bit of a think where it's, you know, who than anything else, I think. So to me, those were kind of the But but you know, when Charles there watching it and I thought, Kimi's going to win this thing And, um, and sure enough, it once he went into the lead. So anyway, that was my take. I have so much to say about y'all's highlights and even the hot topics. Maybe we'll catch those again at the full race review for me. My highlight was actually Isaac Hagar's ending spot from where he started. Considering all the things that we've talked about this race, and hopefully we'll talk about as we debrief about the how the teams landed or how the drivers landed. I just thought it was quite skill and how hard he worked to to, I think it was P six. He ended up. And I know we. I'm not in any way detracting I'm just thinking of a person sophomore year and how hard that We talk about the Red bull was really impressed by that. I think that it was it's not because of all the other topics that have happened regarding that race. It's kind of flown under the And so for me, that was the It's an interesting point you But then again, I my view on that is that there are clearly four dominant teams and four dominant castes. That means, and therefore one should do that. Um he did slightly better, but So that's seven cars. So he finished P6 um and then I, penalties and things that lesser or greater extent. But um, you know, yeah, he did a same thing about, um, I the field, but he did a great Um, and I think that, you know, sometimes when people drive through the field, it, they are someone like spa where you can overtake. I don't see it as being such a you did that at Monaco, you'd you can't do that. But I'm not I'm not criticising I'm just saying that's more or where he should have been. But I don't think it was. You know, I don't I wouldn't put Um well no, I'm not saying that I'm, I'm definitely not saying it's like a highlight that's going to live, you know, for decades. I think that when we look at the reliability issues that have been plaguing, it seems like all the cars. But I do I agree with you on so Let me say that first, that if he was, he's in a Red bull that is improving. And if he wasn't able to harness that car, there would be some serious questions as to his talent. And so I do think that is that And I agree that the group that he should be in, which is really a great segue to the front of field discussion. He should be playing in the where he started. But I think that where I was reliability issue and some of about this deployment and plagued, and even Max didn't happy with the with the car. So that's Max, who is in a class I think when I think about the second seat and how mentally times, going back to what we how they manage drivers. I think what I keep coming back consistency in enough and proving that this new All the things are coming into seat driver, be it Isaac in this versus I think in the past, have prevented him. He's taking advantage of the Is he excelling, dominating? Probably not. But do I think he has the I think we it's a wait and see. I would want to hope that he Can I leap in there? I think you're right. To a large extent you're right, crumble under pressure. But, uh, if you look to what Alex Albon, for example, did there, he didn't crumble under pressure. And the fact that Red bull ridiculous thing to do. I never understood why, just they decided that they would, to sell more drinks in Mexico. Who knows? I don't know why they decided on because because Alex showed that stand up to the battering that the others didn't. And it's true, they, they they, some of them were poor, very poor. Um, but, you know, in, in a lot it because they were thrown into But you know, if they crumbled you can blame them for it. Um, but I don't know, it's, it's but I don't think we should say seen people say, well, Isaac's driver Red bull have had. I don't agree with that. I think that Alex was better. Um, now, in the end he wasn't, but he, you know, he got to a point where he could have won races. Um, he didn't in the end. Um because things didn't turn out by Lewis Hamilton um when he And you know, so I don't think we should overplay what Isaac's done. I think as Isaac's clearly good. But you know, is he I you wonder sometimes I look at what Arvid Lindblad did on his first visit in a formula one car to spa and go wonder what he could do in a Red bull? Oh yeah. I don't think actually, Joe, we're disagreeing because I would not say he's the best driver that's been in the second seat. I think that's one premature. Two is that there are so many I agree with you that Alex. Alex. His removal makes no sense to me, especially when you look at the full chessboard that was happening. I think there was things outside orchestrated his departure. So I think, yeah, we're agreeing I just think in this case, looking at this race, looking at how he drove, considering where we are in the season, what Red bull has been going through, I just enjoyed seeing him make that move. I will say, though, this may be a philosophical difference, I don't personally like to blame any of the drivers unless they're doing something egregious. I'm very much of wanting to be a think that they. Especially now more than ever. Social media has allowed you. You are allowed because you're. You're an insider in the You have so much access and But I think as a person like me, preponderance of people, we And to sit there and blame and feel very strongly against and Is that because there's so much show up onto that grid? And I truly respect them, that I'm like gonna stand firm and be I'm willing to point out and provide critical feedback, but still couch it as I'm not the driver. I don't have the full information and I respect them too much. I feel like it's arrogance on my So I guess that's just a little I don't I think, I think, I is, and I'm not blaming them You know, you'll even hear me occasionally defending Lance stroll and saying that Lance stroll is has got tariff because he does. And underneath it all, he does But you know, the job of, of, of being a Formula one journalist is, is not putting your own ideas in. It's looking at the facts. And the facts are very simple. The facts are. And whether, whether you can afterwards, but the facts are rarely in a twenty four race They reflect the level at which that's the way I look at it. Um, so I'm not you know, I when drivers make ridiculous mistakes, yes, I'll say that's ridiculous. But, um, you know, I agree with in a league of their own. And you've seen. You can see that when you when you see some of the other things that, you know, other championships around the world, the level at which these guys are operating, operating is so much higher. Um, and this is why they're others aren't there. And when one of them, when a, a failed Formula one driver goes know, he's still a star. So I think we should always bear Um, but, you know, there's a lot of other things that get in the way. You know, there's national bias. You only have to look at the football thing, you know, to see national bias in operation, you know, um, and people just getting upset because their team got beaten. Um, and there's a lot of that in formula one and I find that very ugly and unpleasant, the kind of rampant nationalism. Um, I really don't like it. And uh, uh, and I will fight if you fight against it, you get your face on a gravestone and Yeah, I think that especially when it comes to you, I think that you have said it exactly right. You are a journalist. And so therefore you have to Like, I just think the seat that occupy is non-journalist with a in the discourse, because I do clue, sitting there and attacking people and are just so And I think that was a premise that we had when we started the podcast, was that we weren't going to be those type of individuals. I know I'm kind of speaking for Um, that was actually John's about the drama of. Yes, it is about drama, but it's It's talking about this sport with honesty and intellectually. Which means we'll go down the This is supposed to be about the Um, and that's why we were so glad that, Joe, you've been doing these episodes with us because you bring an insight that I think that is so valuable and helps us to see it with more foundation. And you're, you're again inside and knowledge and history, which that you are having these Um, okay. So all that said, I know that we I'll tell you and maybe we this longer than it was. I personally was so heartbroken as to such a race that is so classic and one that I look forward to. I felt this year was absolutely I was just, I was so not I mean this again, not to but it was not what I expected. When I think about Spa, I think about harnessing power, pushing the car to the limit and seeing people do. When we talk about the I usually sit with like eager But as the race just continued, And it's not even like past it all outright. There was a level of feeling like something was being manufactured. I know you were saying that I questioned that I was going, It's a this is the longest, one of the longest, if not the longest track that we have in the year. Why do we need to have a full course yellow happening for a Marshall, which I respect safety. But do you see like it just. I mean, maybe that was just me, but I didn't feel this enthusiasm. The the the thing we should note You don't see the whole track, So maybe, maybe there were other things going on that that kept that VSC going as long as it did. But if that was the case, why Uh, you know, we should have to The TV is there to tell us why things happen and, uh, and because we didn't see anything else. It was therefore very suspicious Um, but, you know, I, I also like to believe that officials don't do that sort of stuff anymore. They certainly have done in the back in the day. Uh, I'd say probably the last ever questioned, um, the way if there is any intervention before then though, there were this is being. You know, this is being messed Um, and, you know, I will always say when I have suspicions of these things, I. And I think it's down to really, ultimately, whether you respect the, the way that the, uh, the federation is run. And I think that that is, that bit by some of the messes we've Um, that faith in that kind of, uh, the way race administration is run is, um, is waning a little bit. And that's not a good thing. That's not a good thing at all. I think we need to have total And you see this in other, you know, um, and you see strengthen their, um, people's processes because too many what's all this about? Why does that happen? Um, so, you know, we can, we can this is odd. It's for them to fix it. And if they don't fix it, it It's, it's very simple. Um and how do you fix it? Well, that's again, it's their Um, but you know, I think that's something worth mentioning anyway. Yeah. And I would add to that, you there watching the race and it was not the most exciting race. Let's just go there. And, um, and I wondered how much of that was just due to the new rules. And we still haven't gotten our arms around how to make these rules work on a track that doesn't lend itself to, uh, a, a, a rule set that that is so dependent on actually touching the brakes and generating electricity. You know, and, um, and to me, it was really sad because I got the feeling that there were just some of those corners that were just not the corners that they used to be, you know what I mean? And, um, and because the drivers were not in a position to go through, you know, flat out or nearly flat out, you know, were they flat going through Eau Rouge? Where are they flat going Going through like pouhon and places like that where you just kind of gasp at how fast they're going. And, um, and so to me, I think it as well. Um, you know, and I can I ask Yeah, I mean, I, I don't mean I guess that neither of you has Yeah. And so the key point I think is, and this is why I, I go to spa with the same level of sort of excitement as you're talking about. But when you actually go there, When you go and see it, it is terms of because TV, as we've everything out and makes it look don't see the same level. I don't get, you know, I never find a race, um, boring because it's always exciting because what those guys are doing in the spaces they're doing it in is always impressive. And spa is particularly Okay. You know, it wasn't the greatest I accept that, but it's still a And that's why I think I'm more enthusiastic about the race than perhaps because I know what they're like. Well, I guess I wasn't. I'm not saying that I expect I don't expect wheel to wheel in I think it's when you have I mean, I haven't watched nearly And that's not trying to call But I'm saying is that even But I'm saying is when you I do And so when you watch the just like when you talk about do agree that the TV flattens it over the years, there was I guess the word was dynamic the human, of the machine over And I will say, I've done the high quality sim of the Belgian Grand Prix, and it wasn't until I got into that sim that I went, oh crap, now I understand what they're harnessing, especially when you're going up that Eau Rouge and you're going through those turns. Your memory. I remember the first time I did way does it go? Like, am I going to crash into and I, I think that's part of our drivers, because it wasn't oh, and I'm not even doing it Like literally, I can push a I felt like this year it was So maybe I don't maybe the It just wasn't as exhilarating push, because I feel like the the drivers, and maybe that goes But here's the question I have. I've been reading that, yes, there were times where the drivers were literally full throttle, but the car, because of the energy management system, was not giving them the full power. They would feel that drop. And it was also inconsistent. And I thought, well, when we to the edge. If I'm the driver and I'm learning this car, it's a new rig and each time I'm taking the lap, there isn't a consistency of the car, even if it's doing something I disagree with or dislike. Yeah, they're probably trying to Do you see where I'm. I'm wrestling with guys. Yeah, I know you, but you can't. You can't. I don't think you can. What you can do is say, you You can say the regulations are What we know is that the drivers the absolute maximum. Okay? If at times they can't drive it as fast as the car might be able to do if the configuration was different. In other words, if you have electric power at certain points, you'd be able to do more. But if you did that, you'd lose Um, you know, you can't. I don't think it's right to Um, I don't think it makes it are driving it to the maximum. So okay, they can't all be flat every corner, but that's always You know, you, you drive with The question is whether or not are the right machines or are of the game? And the FIA kept on insisting away from one hundred percent. We're not going to say fifty We're not going to change it. We're not going to change. You're not going to change it. Even when people told them this So who's to blame for that? Is that, uh, is that the sport Is that a federation that's to I don't know the answer to that. You know, the teams obviously not, you know, the FIA was told didn't change it. And now when there is a reaction in the finest traditions of, oh, gee whiz, look, the horse has bolted. Let's shut the door. Um, that's what they're doing. So one has to question the not, whole, but the people who came sport what it is today. And so that's really the Um, at the same time, you know, it's still exhilarating and exciting stuff no matter where it is. And particularly on a place, a why I think, you know, when you you see, you know, if you try to run out of breath. And I don't know if you're Oh my word. Yeah. Isn't it? Yeah. But but that will still not give you anything like the G forces and the bottoming out and going up the top and the whoa over the top. You know, you can't get that You won't get that. And, and, you know, even if you've got a seat belt tightening device, all these other things that they have on, you know, to simulate braking and stuff. But I think, I think we just And this is why I say people they can, because they are just different perspective when you And I know you and I know there's no time, there's no money, whatever. Well, if anything, that goes to a different point that I walked away from though, Joe, I'm not disagreeing with anything you said. I think that this race just this decision to go to the we've gone to was not ideal. And I think in the long term I think the other side, going that for those people who make it's not even an easy schlep to I just had to turn on the TV and like, okay, this is a good race. Could it be better? Yes, I'm a little bored. Yes, about lap twenty two, I'm some of the strategic things could be even better, right? I thought to myself, if I were an American or I was someone from a different part of the world, I paid the money to come out here. Is this the most dynamic race? I would just be like, wow, these cars, this power, this, I don't know. I mean, I literally don't know But listening to you, maybe that calculation for me if I had But I just think that for the sport, the regulations are not showing. What I think we talk about is that this is the most amazing sport. Okay. Yeah, I think I think the way to to answer that is if you look at the rising audiences at every race, the crowds are record breaking. Now at every race. The British Grand Prix beat the The Belgian Grand Prix beat its All the rest of this stuff. When you when people go to actually see a race, they become fans. They become serious fans. You know, the first time they go to a motor race, they get hooked. That's one point. The other point is that we are still in the first year of this regulation set. Okay. Mhm. It was perhaps overly ambitious and perhaps they should have, um, moderated it before the season began. But you know Stefano Domenicali So by the end of the year, he One, the genius Formula One most of these problems. Now, I'm not sure if that's one certainly a year from now I conversation because although deployment and this and that the technology will have moved And, um, and because that's brains are working on how do we And so we are still, you know, we are what are we six, four, four, four months into a new championship? And it's easy to criticize, uh, because there are things that aren't right. And we're at circuits where that And I would go to the and I doubt you'll hear very anything because they won't have Right? And in some of the tracks issue has disappeared already. So, you know, we are we are And but I think we need to be you know, where, how much It's not in trouble at all. It's doing better than ever. But it can be better. It can always be better. And that's why when people ask season, I always say the next view, the reality. Um, and you know, I, I'm not one of these people who goes, oh, of course, nineteen seventy six was marvelous because, you know, it's not my idea of it was it's a bit like a Woody Allen movie, you know, you forget all the you forget all the bad things about the good old days and just remember the nostalgia, you know? Um, and I think that's wrong. I think we should appreciate of it and look ahead. But there we are. Should we, should we go back to. I think that would probably be Our audience is probably like, okay, get to the get to the race review. So let's talk about that middle Anybody that stood out. Uh, yeah, I thought, I thought I thought Lindblad did a very Um, and I thought that, uh, Well, yeah, I bought a letter. I mean, he was he was very good. Um, yeah. But basically, I think, you know, those people who are, if you like, outperforming their cars is what I'm always looking for. You know, I'm not saying that outperformed the car, but he been under a lot of pressure. And, you know, he's, he's risen So I think that's very good. I think Lindblad's been really But he was particularly fast um loving doing it. And, and also the fact that he the way around, which hasn't Liam's been really good. So, you know, there's all that I thought, um, that that remarkable for a young guy. Um, and I think that it's really other talents there who are, are And we will maybe we'll see a year on the driver market. But I think, you know, a place like spa is where you really can a driver is input can make a difference. Um, and I think that's what of the older guys, you know, uh, the old drivers are just as good They're not young drivers start understand the other things in You know, they take risks that Older drivers are better because Um, say they're better old and therefore can balance out Um, but you know, it doesn't scheme of things. They probably don't crash as points and that's what matters. So that's why so many of them But you know, I'm a great believer in, in um, I don't think you should necessarily have an age limit for formula one drivers. But on the other hand, I sometimes wonder, because, you know, Bernie Ecclestone used to say there's no natural wastage anymore. In other words, people don't get So the turnover is slower. Um, in the driver world, which was the ultimate ultimately cynical, of course, but actually the truth. Um, and so I, I don't know the It's a good one isn't it? Um, but as long as people bring home the points, I guess Um, but I'm not always convinced by some of the middle ranking ones. I think we'll see some of them I think this year maybe. Hey, Joe, I've got a question because what you said is it actually made me kind of wonder if you think about Audi for a second. You have a highly experienced you have a young talent who's I think in Bortoleto, you know, car that that Kimi has had to But he's turned in some pretty strong performances really, I think over the last season and a half. And it makes me wonder if like interesting one two punch in Hulkenberg has been very developing that project. And and, you know, Hulkenberg Bortoletto who seems to be the the terrific stuff, but he lead a team and develop the car. I think that's what you're And if you I mean, again, to this, we're seeing that Kanaan at McLaren has just hired Right. Rosenqvist and they've dumped Lundgaard, you know, and Lundgaard is clearly a rising talent. Now, we already know that Pato very technically minded. So that the thought process that that is going on with Kanaan is get the guy to know how to fix the car, and then put Pato in it to drive it faster than they can. Um, and I think that's really So if you have a young guy who knows how to set the cars up, ultimately results in the young Um, so yeah, there is that So, um, whether, whether it'll work in, in the case of the arrow McLaren team, I don't know. Right. But it is, you know, it's a cannon to do, I think. Yeah. I mean, because if Lundgaard goes off and and races for for Ganassi and is, you know, not far behind Palau, um, the other teams may have a great deal of trouble catching up with them even. I mean, you know, the whole thing is dominant already isn't it. So yeah, yeah. I mean, um, you know, and I personality issues with other drivers or something. I, I, I've heard whispers of Um, but I, I met, I met both of asked you in, uh oh, in Austin. I had a long chat with both of I was impressed by both of them. I thought, whoa, you know, for are smart guys. They're clever. They're not no fast bimbos. Um, these guys are quick. I mean, seagulls, not as quick, but he's a very intelligent young guy. Uh, and I was very impressed by to be, uh, have everything sort But again, it's a little bit I met him and I thought Ferrucci sometimes he was a lunatic on Um, but his wife, uh, I find a you have to have, you know, high what they're doing. Right. And I think that's, you know, wasn't expecting when I met Austin, I wasn't expecting them and able to express themselves And that really was. It was an interesting education Yeah. Um, but if you talk to the young guys in, in formula One, um, and it's difficult, I know it sounds weird, but actually getting time with these guys is really hard these days because of all the things. Actually sitting down and having a sensible conversation with them is not as easy as it used to be. But, you know, I've known Kimi coming up, and that's a good And he's just an exceptional, um, has an exceptional brain, an exceptional, um, ability to cope with everything. Ollie Bowman's a little bit the very bright switched on. Um, and again, because he was, he went through a reserve driver phase. Um, that's when you can really get to meet them and when the press is not on yet, you know, and you can actually build a the relationship with them, which you don't get the chance of later on. Um, because of just the way the So, um, you know, I think it respecting what the drivers are Um, we should always respect where they are. Is, is remarkably impressive. Yeah. Um, and, uh, you know, it's so well, this guy's a waste of time you waste your time or not. And, uh, and I really try to So. Yeah. Yeah. Totally fair. I just want to go back to the generational discussion you guys had. I just want to chime in on that. I think listening to that, it's also a good business principle that having multiple generations of people together, I think really is a healthy working dynamic because it helps in avoiding groupthink. You have the experienced people and wisdom coming together. So I think it's actually very smart of Audi to have made that match up. I remember when they did it, I Now, are they at the front of Not yet, but I think that they and utilize the fact that they one who's got that youth and one So is there anybody else in the back of the grid that you want to talk about before we sign off today? The only thing I'd say that just quickly, and that is, yes, is having a big new car. Okay. I mean it won't be necessarily a effectively a new car. The team reckons it will be which means they're only two That's what you've got to bear So don't expect them to be challenging for victories next week. They will be challenging for twelfth or fourteenth place on the grid. That's the very best they can So, you know, just there's a lot A lot of people saying, yeah, but just wait till the new Aston arrives. I'm just telling you the new set the world on fire. Probably right. Yeah. And we don't know whether they're correlation tools are any good because they're still using some of their tools date back to the days of Jordan Grand Prix. And so you know it really is. Yeah. But Newey was saying when he first got there he was like oh my goodness. You know we you know yeah we But our tools are terrible. And um, and I know yeah, he's been spending a year and a half fixing that. Um, but I, I view this car as Aston Martin if it comes. Right. And they go to twelfth place. That that's a win for those Um, because with a little bit of Yeah, I know, I know, but you spend it, you look at how much and what they, their ambitions was being achieved before they, don't think that's quite right. But um you know, I think it's a very good example of the fact that money won't fix things in Formula One. It helps. And if you, it's how you use the And that is, you know, that is And you can go through the One and show examples of people and absolutely bombed because mentality, structure, whatever And there are different reasons Usually a lot of it is down to People just turn up thinking they're better than they are and they get nasty lessons that they don't like, and often run away and weep quietly after being humiliated publicly. So yeah, this is something that, building teams and having And this is why when you hear hear racing drivers talking fantastic and the people back in Now, a lot of people do think, that's vitally important. Exactly. I mean, so first off, the audience has not seen my face that even though you and I, Joe, have had moments of debate, I'm actually nodding my head eighty percent of the time that you're talking. Uh, but I again, I think that think that the only person of If you're failing to understand you don't realize it. If you are a highly intelligent that team because they're the They're the reason you're safely They have so many in-race moments, but pre and post race, making sure that you can go out there and focus on your job of extracting the best out of that car. So yeah, my hackles got up because I was like, no, just like, I don't want to see people very ignorantly attacking drivers. I think there are teams those will say it's largely because of little bit over a year and a talked about how hard these sacrifice, why the bonus money these staff members of this team gets out there. And when I really sat and of a superficial knowledge. But that was a great education conversation for me, and I know that it was for so much of our audience. The other thing I will say, though, is I think it's important that we just realize that what you said about the high intelligence of these drivers is that is something I think, hopefully all of us who come to the sport seek to have like that. We do think about this as what I hope people would see in this conversation is we're not just simply going, oh, they ended up here and this was the drama, but really trying to understand fully why did this happen and how do we how do we appreciate the people that are putting on this show and putting in the work? Like it's an entertainment, but Yeah, I think the big factories have a thousand people working there. It's not just the driver, you know, and they're just think about think about what in the world do our thousand people do to put two cars on a track every two weekends? When you start to think about You just go, okay. Think of the level of detail. Think about, you know, there'll be two hundred of those people who are doing things that don't work just to find out they don't work. You know, there's value in Yeah, exactly. And, and there are so many to this sport. It's fascinating and it's It changes all the time. But it is it's astonishing. And you know, you can't just is finding out now. You can't just turn up with a ton of money, think you're going to throw together a team and become competitive. You know you're not. And if you tell people you are, they're going to be disappointed. So, you know, it's all about management of expectations as well. You've got to manage And a lot of Formula One teams are not good at managing expectations. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not just formula One No kidding. Well, on that note, I'm going to manage expectations, which is we said that we would respect the day jobs. And those are calling for at So we need to get going. Joe, we hope that you continue conversations as you do your just really grateful to have you So on that note, I look forward. I enjoy every minute of it. It it it allows me to it allows me to effectively to talk to the fans because you're asking questions. I mean, you're asking questions of a fan and Dick is asking questions of someone in the industry, but outside Formula One. And, and I get it. And I like to answer those questions because it helps me to understand what people are thinking. And it also helps me to explain ideas about, oh, maybe I should an interesting point. You know, so there's a value in On that note, um Jsbmb. We talked on a few of this everybody should make sure that be a subscriber. Yeah, I love it. Every good stuff in there. I've got to get going guys. So I look forward to our next Okay, friends, what did you Drop me a line via email. Sabrina at Two Guys, a girl and Can you help us out? If you haven't already, please take a moment to follow us and give us five stars on your favorite podcast app, as well as share this episode with other F1 fans. We know our growth is because of you and the guys and I thank you. And with that, let me say we'll listening in because we're just John, Dick and me. Sabrina, thanks for listening.