Race Review | 2026 Hungarian Grand Prix | 190 | Bahrain Can't Host Its Own Grand Prix This Year. So It's Paying Malaysia To.

Lando Norris won in Hungary. The tarmac failed again. And Oscar Piastri lost his race, and nearly his cool, in a blue flag battle with Carlos Sainz. Dick also breaks down just how narrow a Formula 1 setup window really is, and why temperature, air density, and even a passing cloud can swing lap time more than most fans realize. But the conversation that mattered most wasn't about any of that. Bahrain can't hold its own Grand Prix this year, so it's paying Malaysia to host it instead. Sabrina and Joe couldn't agree on what that means for what a Grand Prix actually is.

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Transcript

Speaker: 0:03

Hey friends, thanks for taking time to listen in on a conversation. Dig. Joe Seward and I had about the twenty twenty six Hungarian Grand Prix. McLaren won the tarmac, had lost his race and very nearly with Carlos Sainz. Dick broke down just how narrow the setup window really is when temperature and track conditions shift underneath every team all weekend long. But the conversation that took over the back half of this episode wasn't about Hungary at all. Bahrain can't hold its own Grand Malaysia to host it instead. Joe walked us through the money, As you'll hear, Joe and I landed Before we get to our conversation, I need to ask, can you help us out if this show adds value to your F1 experience, please take a moment to follow us and give us five stars on your favorite podcast app. Share this episode with other F1 That's how people find us and it's how we keep growing this community. Hope you enjoy our conversation. All right gentlemen, our audience doesn't have any clue why we're already laughing, but hopefully it lets them know that we really enjoy getting to have this time talking with one another and that, you know, we're just turning on the microphone after a bit of talking and they just get to listen in. Hence the reason I say listen Um, we're chatting today about the Hungarian Grand Prix and I am really looking forward to y'all's thoughts. So let's just get started with Dick, you want to get started? Yeah. First of all, I thought this was the Hungaroring, because of its And so you didn't see a whole drivers, you know, sitting there whatever they needed to do. Instead, they just kind of went And it was just fun to watch. And I thought it was a much more Speaking as a, as a guy, that's a as it's all about being a pure racer. Um, and so I thought it was I thought Max sending it and turn one and passing two cars at one spot. Um, that was brilliant. Even Max thought that it was a Um, you know, it was just fun to Um, that race. I really, really, truly enjoyed Um, I thought Lando did a very You know, they've got a car now it's still not very nice to And so, um, it was nice to see McLaren in a position to win, where you just kind of thought, yeah, these guys look pretty strong. Um, I don't know what happened They just never like in the very make their last run, they just They could not improve and really a surprise. And I don't know that there's Well, I never saw an explanation Um, but anyway, it's just, you thoughts, but overall, I, I good fun to watch. What about you, Joe? Well, I thought it was a Um, the Hungaroring is like almost like Monaco without the houses and without, to be honest, without the elevation changes, there's a little bit of up and down, but there's not a lot. Um and it's just a very, very I don't, I mean watching the F3 They were wild because, you know, these guys know that they've got one chance to get things done. And, you know, obviously after a do it again. But they were completely wild. Um, because you know that that's So qualifying is really McLaren. I think the car very much suited I don't think McLaren is really I think that Mercedes suffered The track was a disaster. They're re re tarmacked a whole Done it very badly. And the FIA had passed it just I don't get it. Don't understand. They're supposed to be professional track inspectors and they're letting these things twice in five races or whatever it is. It ain't right. It ain't right. There's something they're not You know, tarmac is a science It's been studied endlessly. You can make tarmac to do Why can't they get it right? Um, and, you know, and it Um and less so the race because you know, gluing stuff to the But it was at the beginning, the place and there were new It just wasn't very clever. Um, so, uh, and the race weekend Antonelli really suffered from Friday, uh, to Fred Vesti. I think that put him behind a He caught up, but then in the Um, but, you know, I think he really suffered as a result of that. And Ferrari was yeah, you're It was just a bit wishy washy Um, nothing particularly It's nice to see McLaren. I thought Oscar did a very good And he got wildly and Carlos Sainz and basically lost momentum, but his cool a little And making Oscar Piastri lose Um, you know, because he's, you himself, he's almost horizontal Nothing sort of gets him going. And you know, anyway, apart from plenty of action. I thought the racing balls were Uh, Red bull were okay. Max was Max as ever. Um, I thought Audi did a very And, uh, and then you had the about where I expected it to be. Um, Williams had a bad weekend, which made Aston Martin look good. Um, But the Williams was absolutely not built for that racetrack. So I think it'll be, you know, Hungaroring and Zandvoort and have to take into account. You can't just rewrite the saying, now look at this. McLaren's back on top. Let's wait and see. I think at Monza they'll be Yeah, I I'm glad you're bringing Both of you have brought up some definitely discuss with you about McLaren, that's the most I had that question of is this And to hear you both. I'm wondering now for those who have asked that question. What leads you? Is it the track itself, these experiences that you just said that tells you like history wise, or is there something about what you saw, the cars performance that makes you think that this isn't something where McLaren has now turned it all around? No, it's just it's always been levels of technology are so close, um, circuit specificity. So very long and complicated Um is quite normal. In other words, one car will just do certain things better than others. Some do low speed cornering Some do high speed cornering So, you know, and um, there are other things that, that weigh in. Um not so much as it used to be in the old days when you had turbos and, and normally aspirated engines, there would be questions about um altitude for example. because that does a whole bunch and aerodynamics as well. Temperature is something which I think is is a almost a mystery to everybody. How do you make the tires work? Um, will your car work? Will it not work? Um, and that seems to confuse You know, it'll suddenly change might be two degrees different. You know, it's just, um, a very, And if it was easy, we'd all be You know, we'd all be being paid it all works. But we don't. Yeah. I agree with you on that, Dick. I wonder from your technical perspective, like in as a racer and your Stem background, would you like to jump in before we move on? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, to Joe's point, the Um, and I always find it really interesting where they they talk about, you know, some cars having a very, very narrow setup window. Well, all the cars have a narrow It's just that some are more And, and by that, I mean, you know, you have a temperature change and your air density goes down. And if your air density goes down, that's going to impact your aero. It's going to impact the those kinds of things. And if you have changeable conditions, it's going to make a big difference in the way a car performs from session to session, let alone the whole weekend. And so a lot of it has to do react and all that. And I, I believe that right now, all that, they don't have the would have had, say, at the end it's a hotter day today. That means we have lost this We need to make some adjustments before we even think about going out because we're going to be behind. To start with, you know, And so I think I think that's This is where the engineers really, really earned their money. The other part is, is that I don't know that there's any way to predict. I you know, Joe, you've probably it, but as the temperature goes itself, that is part of the It starts coming up. And so the track loses grip. And so the engineers have to ask because we missed something on because the track is now slower? You can and you can actually see example, a cloud passes over the difference between sunshine and know, half a second a lap and But there are some other things Just to quickly add in there, sort of onslaught of AI going follow, obviously, because they And, and also, how does it work? You know, a lot of people don't lot of these engineers do. So they can do all kinds of, of that weren't, weren't doable or armies of people. Um, and now AI can do stuff like So we'll have to see what that But what it basically means is that everything just gets closer and more, more insane technically. Um, now obviously we're at the does spread everybody out. Um, but I think it won't be too long before People begin to close up. I mean, I'm not sure about rest of them, Cadillac is now As now the Aston have actually it's only a half decent car. You know, we may have more everybody is is now more or less I think that's the best way of Aston were completely out of And that was disastrous really. Joe, I have a question for you. And just really curious. We know that both the Aston Martin and the Williams are just grossly overweight. Right. Um I heard that for the Aston Martin they're like they were like thirty kilos over the minimum weight. Um and Williams may have be even more and I find it fascinating that and for our listeners, they may find this very interesting, but you really want to be quite a bit underweight with then putting them in ballast into the car and they move the ballast around front to rear, uh, depending on the nature of the circuit. Um oh yeah. You want to expand on that and Yeah. Well yeah, no, that's entirely I mean, every, every kilo overweight costs you, costs you time. And the reason it costs you time is that, you know, a car is heavier, has more momentum, goes around a corner and, and stresses the tyres more, for example. I mean, there's lots of other explanations, but basically, you know, moving a heavy object, um, is more difficult than moving a light object. It's as simple as that. So if you can then move the you know, they have, they have places for different occasions. Um, that helps them a lot. But to get to that um is very And so yeah, it's true. I think the Red Bulls have been And that's one of the reasons I think that um, that they've been struggling is. But now it's a matter of sort Um, and you know, we'll see and there'll be a lot of lessons being learned to for next year too. So, um, we could see a complete in the, in the pecking order. Um, next year it's, there's no so new that's, you know, I think that the Mercedes engine will according to um the FIA, uh, the Um you know. Right. Go figure. Well it isn't, but you know, better by all accounts, but the very odd that whole um the way sort of upgrades to the engine nothing when it's clear that Red to be on the pace of Mercedes. Yeah. And that makes Mercedes playing That's that's one thing that you Um they might have been not using their engine to the fullest extent in the start of the year, because they knew that they might be able to gain some more. Um, uh, you know, that's one of the things that happens in this game. You know, you have sandbagging, you have, you have, it's a bit like the, the whole, uh, balance of performance rubbish that exists in the World Endurance Championship. You know, everyone's desperately trying to play the system so they get a better thing for what they need. And mainly what they need is to So they all pretend that it's terrible until you get to Le Mans and suddenly the whole order changes. I mean, it's not my kind of It's. I just old things bent and I So there you are. Yeah. Oh, the other thing is, in World actually a rule where talk about this. Oh, how wrong is that? Well, yeah. How interesting. I had no idea. Yeah. If you talk about it, you get get penalties, you get fines, Well, we wouldn't want the Anyway. Yeah, it's that kind of stuff. It just just makes a mockery of It's a bit like reversing the top ten in formula two and formula three. What's the point? Right? What's the point? You just get some bloke winning Mhm. And particularly at a race like Monaco, where you might as well just give the bloke the cup after qualifying. If he if he qualifies tenth he's won It's necessary that, you know. Congratulations. You won the lottery. Yeah. What is the point? Yeah. You know. Yeah. Okay, so maybe it looks better It doesn't, because there's They just follow each other But some other races they, you know, the fast guys being behind the slower guys create a just usually another safety car, then another safety car and another safety car. And of course anyone sneezes. There's a safety car these days. So there's a lot wrong with all these sort of fiddles that, that go on. Um, but we're supposed to be let's go back to that, shall we? Well, I want to go back to I think you touched on, which Carlos and Oscar, specifically Can we unpack a little bit about Because I know during the race, a lot of commentary post-race. There was a lot of commentary. Help us understand, especially those of us who weren't watching thirty years ago, were blue flags. What's the history of blue Why were they implemented? What's the role of them and what So help people understand a changed over time. Okay. Um, well, at the beginning of potted history of motor racing. At the beginning of motor racing, they raced from city to city. That was too dangerous because five hundred mile course, and by with a cart and gets So then they went to big So the circuits were like seventy miles around, which is a similar problem. But gradually the circuit size And that meant you were lapping Um, and when you were lapping people, you wanted to warn the guys ahead that, um, that there was a fast guy coming up behind him. So they didn't get in the way. And basically that's where the Now, nowadays it's all to do all the rest of it. Technology has. The drivers should know. In fact, in a really good team, they will warn the driver that such and such is coming up behind him. Um, particularly in qualifying, the way because Fred's on a fast for getting in his way. Now in the race that also should But sometimes drivers are just I remember back in the day, back couple of as they get older, They don't like being overtaken, winners in their day. And one of the worst was Rene Arnoux, a Frenchman, and he used to get in everybody's way all the time. And it was like, oh, come on, Leave the sport. If you're going to be like this, You know? But there were others too, and they were doing it because they being in a bad car, you know, little bit of chaos in that too. I think, you know, Carlos is a is a is a good guy to a large extent. But I think there's a little bit the blue touch paper. Um, he can, he can get quite um Um, anyway, there we are. So I mean he got penalised for penalised for it, but it did And that shows you also you was one point I think where that was it. He was gone from the race, you battling for the lead. That's how tight it is. And and this is what I think new understand is just how, first of all the time, and secondly, how little mistake puts you into, or whatever, and it puts you Um, and it really is at such a level that the tiniest things really matter. And I think Hungary showed us that in a number of different ways. Mhm. Yeah. Listening to what you just said. Oh, Dick, I don't want to cut in on the blue flags. No, no, no. I, I was chuckling, though, when, when Joe brought up, um. René Arnoux because here's a he was driving for Renault. And um, one of the US commentators who's actually a Brit and I love this guy David Hobbs. He was a retired racing driver and was now, um, the color commentator for the US broadcast. Pretty sure old hobo had a the race ever started. Guy was hilarious and, um, still around, but he didn't call him René Arnoux. He called him Arnie Renault, and and and from now on, I can never I always call him Arnie Renault So anyway. Yeah. Oh, man, what a guy. Great guy. Yeah, I, I did a lot of stuff he was doing, I think it was We must have done about ten And he was just him and Chris Economaki and, uh, and people like that. It was, it was a wild time. And, uh, yeah, there were You could misbehave a bit more. I think I remember hobo standing the finest traditions. Um, and it was Varsha, I suppose Bob. Varsha. Right. And they wear the shirt and tie. And then there were shorts and You know, that bit didn't appear Um, and it was hot in a lot of You know, this kind of stuff. Um, but for some reason, when they're commentating. I don't understand that either, Um, it's part of the traditions Hobbes. Hobbes was an absolute scream. Oh yeah, I guess he's I guess he He had a BMW dealership. He lives, I think, in Florida I haven't seen him for a while, stateside and he's certainly had I don't know if he's still got His son, I think might be, um, Family might be running I mean, there's a little bit of that in a number of racing drivers who sort of settled in the US. Um, and, you know, sort of, I, I which one's doing what. So. Right, right. Well he was a larger is a larger than life character, that's for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So I really actually, Joe, I hope this is okay, but I have a number of items that you talked about in this week's Jsbmb that I'd love to have you go a little bit further. Dick, are you cool with that, or the race enough? Yeah, I think we did. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Okay. So Joe, like first you alerted everyone to the Malaysia Bahrain Grand Prix. Can you tell us a little bit I know I use the names inverted. Why don't you give us the story. Okay. Well it's a story of money. That's what it boils down to. Bahrain has lots of money. Malaysia has lots of money but doesn't want to spend it on motor racing. Um, the reason Bahrain likes motor racing is it's good for the country. The crown prince is who's also is um is a huge racing fan. Um and he's also the owner of So um or at least the country is of the many, uh, sovereign basically they can't have a race um, some Americans cause some and, uh, and everything's a mess at the moment. In fact, if anything, it's So Bahrain was trying to get back in on October the fourth, um, which is a, a date between Baku in Azerbaijan and Singapore. Now, if you look at a map, you go from Baku to Bahrain to Singapore. It's doable. Formula one can do amazing Um, in terms of getting stuff in and out of Bahrain because your head and nobody really So basically what Bahrain said is, okay, well, we'll pay for a race somewhere else, which is a novel idea. Why not? Malaysia has a decent track. Um, we used to race there a lot. It's very hot, very hot, very middle of the jungle. But officially, it wasn't in the Officially it was in the sort of But basically it was in the they couldn't afford it. They didn't get big enough And when the Singapore Grand really a sort of movement to, At the same time, the Malaysian corruption mode for a period. Uh, and that's not something particularly interested in. So at the end of the day, the Malaysian Grand Prix got dropped. Um, I have a nasty suspicion Bahrain Grand Prix in Malaysia I can see a Saudi Arabian Grand And I can see or sorry, in Abu Imola and I think quite likely place in Portugal. Um, am I in. AM I in favour of that? Not really, because I don't like being able to just turn up and Grand Prix racing is about a about each one being a big renting the space elsewhere. Having said that, having said that, in the history of the sport, we had a Swiss Grand Prix and motor racing is banned in Switzerland. We had a Swiss Grand Prix in which is, you know, I haven't the border it is, but it's not We had Luxembourg Grand Prix in Germany because at that time, uh, it was Michael Schumacher's era, and they wanted to have more than one race in each country. Now, they invented this thing, a get around that. Um, but I can't remember the reason or other they had to use Um, which they did twice And the What was that? Um. Oh yes, of course. The San Marino Grand Prix was And that was on the Formula One It's about seventy miles from San Marino, and San Marino is basically a big rock that someone left off a map once, and they ended up as an independent country. And, um, and, you know, it's, Kimi Antonelli actually lives because it's fiscally, uh, Um, but so we have, there is a Um, and that was basically a sop So you could always have two And that's sort of gone away now fundamentally a, a half an French Grand Prix as well. So, um, you know, it's, not. I think it's good to have each nation having their own grand prix. But in this circumstance, Bahrain is willing to pay. Yeah. Okay. But it's odd. I mean, if you're a fan and, you and you don't know geography and get someone explaining to Malaysia is going to be a bit You know? Mhm. It mangles geography. Okay. So let me ask you this. How did because I have thoughts, but I want to first make sure I'm educating myself a little bit. And you have such great insights How does this type of think or know? Is this facilitated by Formula One, by liberty, bringing together these two governments, these two entities like the race promoters? How does that happen? Yeah. Well, the Bahrain Grand Prix is promoted by the state of Bahrain. So through through a number of So basically it's the Uh, Malaysia is a government So basically in the press said that, you know, the to achieve this. I'm sure they had. I'm sure they had. Whose idea was it? Uh, probably I would think that the Crown Prince of Bahrain, he's a very clever bloke, might have rung up Stefano Domenicali and said, what about holding a Bahrain Grand Prix somewhere else? Now it might be the other way I don't know that that particular case, but um, because you have to also look at look at the impact if a grand prix doesn't happen. So a Bahrain Grand Prix probably hundred million dollars with all generates around it. Okay. It's a lot of money. You've got the Saudi Arabian well this year, And the chances anything in, uh, Abu Dhabi or Where am I missing? My brain's gone. Um. Qatar. Qatar? Yes, exactly. Sorry. I was thinking I was I had an It was Doha, but I, I don't know So basically we've got four If you add them all up and you say, well that's four hundred million loss of revenue to Formula One, that's a big pile of money. What happens to that money? It gets divided by two a little bit slightly, not quite exactly two, but basically formula one keeps some. The FIA gets some and the teams get the rest of it divided between them. So you're talking about the Let's just do that uh eleven Let's just say two hundred That's a pile of money. And so the teams stand to lose that money if these races don't happen. So they will do anything because some of these teams don't make big profits. Some do make big profits and others will make big profits one day. But they're not they're not So this is quite important because if you've budgeted for X amount and you're twenty million short because there's four races disappeared, that's a serious problem. So I think altogether everyone to have a race. We'll go wherever we have to go. And that's pretty much what's But we haven't had this. You know, this happened during Remember? Um, yeah, the difference there being, um, that not all the promoters paid, um, the money up front, a lot of them did it and a lot of them, you know, there were races that came in like Portugal and Turkey who couldn't afford to pay at normal rates, but they came in because the opportunity was there and they could do a race that wasn't difficult for everyone to get to. With Covid restrictions, etc. But having the races means your If you have enough of them, it means that your trackside sponsorship, your all these deals that you have, um, can all happen to a lesser or greater extent. So you're going to lose some And they did. They all lost money in Covid. But and you know, if you look at McLaren, you can see that they had to sell a whole bunch of stuff and do a whole, a whole bunch of things to keep the team alive. It was tough. And, and so now the long term goal is to have eleven teams that are all wealthy that all make, um, about the same kind of level of commitment and about the same kind of level of performance. We're sort of halfway through that process that was started by Chase Carey. And, and, um, Basically, we've We haven't got any teams looking like they're going to go out of business because they get more prize money. Um, and they are restricting of budget capping, which is a I mean, Chase Carey was an extraordinary bloke because these guys never agreed on anything. You know, if you said, if you said, uh, it's a nice day today, isn't it? They some would argue it was arguing it's Tuesday. You know, it's that was formula One before Chase came along and he just banged their heads together until they finally agreed. They agreed to get rich. How dumb is that? Um, now the FIA is they're just with its begging bowl out all It's supposed to be doing um, fees for this, fees for that, And then they have big parties conventions in about road safety impact on Formula One at all. Um, but that's, you know, the FIA president gave him, um, probably a big thing in Burundi You know, I look, I got my FIA see what value if they don't do I don't see what value the FIA They seem to think they own it. Um which legally speaking they But a long term lease is like a hundred year lease of the commercial agreements is like virtual ownership because, you know, it basically amounts to ownership. It's not. But, um, you know, when it comes renewing that lease in seventy nothing for it. Um, if you don't offer something can't survive without formula Yeah. A question for you, Joe. What is the impact of a team sponsor or somebody who you come up to him and say, hey, guess what? We're not going to actually be I know you had a bunch of people plan to be there as your guests, but we're going to host them in Malaysia instead. I mean, what what does that I mean, it's collateral damage. Yeah. There's nothing you can do about It's just I mean, there was a in in Saudi Arabia where they guests and everything planned So, you know, what do you do? You put them all on a plane and If that's if that's what they Um, is there a loss of impact? Yeah, sure. Your motivations will change. The people you might want to invite will probably change as well. Um, And so yeah, a lot of But then again, this is why, genius, because they can just And, you know, and they have to about the last two races of the Abu Dhabi ain't going to happen if things are still flying around. I mean, the other day, the other had sent missiles either side of So you need to start worrying about the Dakar Rally, the World Endurance Championship that's already gone. Um, the World Rally Championship around in Saudi Arabia. There's a whole bunch of things by this war. And, um, and that impacts on And basically it means people So the other impact. The other impact, I'd say, is that the Bahrain Grand Prix, being in Malaysia, there's a bunch of time zones in the way there. There's three thousand miles time zones will be different. And so the viewing times will be It'll be harder to watch it in I think probably oh yeah. Bahrain is usually an evening night, which translates into the US, I think. And it'll get more complicated is, I don't know, probably four I'd have to look it up, you But yeah, but basically they're much as they can. And there are going to be some Sure. Yeah. Well, I mean, the reason I asked and wanted to really have this conversation is because one, I've seen so many people, especially in the social making, very odd comments or just kind of finding it comical, but looking at it from a business perspective or even from a legal perspective, I thought it was a kind of a stroke of genius to do this. I know I hear you, Joe, and I think in my mind the analysis I did was, look, this this is two different frameworks. One is a force majeure event. And how are you mitigating the This is why I wanted to have gave a great analysis as to the and had to be weighed in to possible solutions, because the cancellation of the race. And one time we've already had that recently with Imola, with the flooding, that was at a different time in the ride cycle. And when you talk about the financial impact, what I wrote down in my notes as you were talking is to lose every dollar we're talking about under the cost cap era, in the early part of a reg cycle, it will have a cascading effect financially and technologically, all already complaining. Or at least I am about where the If they lose that money even How long does that delay in What we want to see as the optimize the rules and adjust. So that's just looking at it And the reason why I asked the question of like, who all was involved? Because I wanted to understand people that were involved in Because when I read this, I thought, if this does become a new form of business, a new business model, like you just said, Chase Carey, such a genius. I actually thought in a world countries are divided, the World coming together around sport and And I think Formula One does that on a yearly basis, consistently bringing people together. But if we got governmental entities or businesses even more inside the sport collaborating like this. Could that actually be another You have other financial joint I don't know if that's positive. I see your perspective of wealthy countries coming in to not so wealthy countries and impacting them. But I thought, wow, this is a Formula one, formula one won't money in it. Right. And I don't have a problem with I kind of have a problem with You know, let's just say China, Prix's and they can't have two doesn't want to have two Grand Whatever the reason, you know, have a grand prix, you know, just about make it, but they So what happens if the Chinese, you know, want a grand prix in South Africa? Is that a good thing? Is that a bad thing? Is. You know, I think it I think that fans are used to one of the big events in the and to have them suddenly world, um, with different titles work for me. I think that just just makes it It's not in, I don't know, I Is the goal of sport to make as where Formula One is at the Or is it to, um you know, it goes back a little bit to that conversation we were having before about formula two and formula three. If you make it, you know, they want more sprint races now because that gives bigger numbers. Therefore they get more money. If you, you know, do they want I would hate that in Formula And at the moment I think Um, Um, but, you know, is it being driven just by money or do we have to hang on to some traditions? Well, I mean, I guess I look at driven by money, I probably have If it's a primary or a majority driver, then I'm okay with it because in some ways, again, not having sat here and thought through everything, but after listening to your insight, I see it as the problem where people say, why are there three races in America? Why do we, as a proud American we get three. And other countries don't. It's because we have the financial capacity and the market interest that people are choosing here. If it could drive people to South Africa to what isn't it Kyalami? That's the old race track there. Yeah. And if I if the Americans were help bring in the infrastructure that comes, and that could have African community and the Do we not then move forward Those are some of the questions I know what you're saying. It's maybe too pollyannaish and too positive, but I mean, I guess I'm seeing it as could this be something that actually brings people to a different way of engaging? Like even the World Cup we had technically it was here in the North America. Everyone thought about most of the United States, but some and Canada that had to have a tourism and bringing those. I think I think if we look, for example, a very good example is Rwanda. Rwanda is being largely funded happen in Rwanda. It's Qatari money because the aviation hub for Africa next This is to promote Rwanda, etc. etc. it's mainly that kind of money. If you look at the Brazilian of Abu Dhabi money in there. Um, so it's already happening, races is slightly different, you have an objection to it. Not not every single time I Yes. But I wouldn't like to see it So if the I guess I'm trying to So the fact that the money is happening isn't the issue for you. It's more the name. And I guess I'm saying is if the why not use the name and and It's a new thing to sell. I thought your other item in the jsbmb that actually kind of ties into this. I'll make make that clear. You talked about, um, Patrick sport because he saw a place And if anything, you can talk But I guess that's what maybe made me think this isn't a terrible idea. If the outside of a force If this becomes a new thing. My personal opinion based off reserve the right to change my So. Okay, Joe, go ahead. Tell us a little about Patrick, because it was such a beautiful tribute that you wrote inside of there. Thank you. That's nice. Um, Paddy, as he was known, um weirdly, uh, he had the same job He was an Autosport reporter and in the commercial side of the sponsorship was just beginning. So he was obviously mixed up with Marlboro in the early years. And then he began to see other Bernie, there's a whole bunch of things that Bernie didn't want to do, and he wasn't interested in merchandising. You know, I once said to Bernie, look at all the money they're making in America on merchandising. Why aren't you doing it? And he looked at me and he went, And, Bernie, that's fine, but you're making a whole bunch of money. He's leaving that you're not You know, he wasn't interested He wasn't interested in giving top of the range globally. There's nothing beats the Paddock Club in terms of quality. Um, the trackside signage. What a mess that used to be. If you look at old film of Grand Prix's, there were a thousand little stickers all over the place. Paddy came in and he and it used and that was a million quid. Thanks very much. Ching. Take the money. And you, you you make it exclusive because you cut down the number of sponsors, you raise the prices and you make the whole thing look professional. So Paddy had this way of making And he developed them all. He did all kinds of other He made the programs. He did all the stuff Bernie He did the podiums. Formula one podiums used to be a But but Bernie. But sorry. Paddy made them. Made them, uh, look good. And Bernie and Paddy, they they, their relationship was quite interesting. One um, a lot of people think but I don't think he was. I think that Paddy was paying um developing and Bernie was taking except to agree to. I'll take the money, you know, that, believe me. Um who wouldn't? Yeah. But you know, what Paddy was the world of sport. You know, he, there were lots of sports who stole the paddock Club idea from formula one later on. And so I think Paddy deserves a lot more credit than he was given. In the end, he sold out for a And he's a classy guy. You know, he he he bought and, and um and did them up stuff like that. And so um I had a lot of time He didn't have much time for journalists, but he did weirdly, he didn't mind me for some reason. So we always got on very well I actually went to him once and, and, uh, tried to get the contract to create the programmes with his organisation. And he took me out to lunch and he said, you don't want this deal. And I went, what? He said, you don't want to do It's just a waste of energy. You won't make much money out of Just do something else. Make you know, don't do this. And in the end, he flogged it to But I think it was because I was I was a small operator trying to become a bigger operator or whatever. And he just said, don't do it. It's not it's not in your So I have a I had a soft spot He was also, incidentally, one I believe that I believe that, especially when you tell us about the longevity of your friendship and professional careers. I think it's great. I have to say, I really have fact that you guys have made And if anything, I look forward to our next conversation, gentlemen. Yeah, looking forward to it as Okay, friends, what did you Drop me a line via email. Sabrina at two Guys, a girl and Can you help us out if you moment to follow us and give us podcast app, as well as share We know our growth is because of you and the guys, and I thank you. And with that, let me say we'll listening in because we're just John, Dick and me. Sabrina, thanks for listening.